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Missouri.(perspective ) to the SEC

 
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ruffstuff's bro
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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018 9:36 pm 
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https://missouri.rivals.com/news/zero-trust-inside...conference

A long but interesting read
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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018 9:56 am 
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GOTTLIEB: “Look, Chip had it right. They were gone and then ESPN was like if that deal blows up, we’ve got to go back and rework all of our contracts and FOX has the Pac-12 contract and it was a, there’s a term for it, not sunken costs, it was a loss leader. This idea like we’re gonna lose money on this Longhorn thing, maybe forever. Maybe eventually we’ll make money on it, but we’re gonna lose a whole hell of a lot more money if all of a sudden OU and Texas and Oklahoma State and somebody else goes to the PAC 12. Chip Brown had it right. At the last second that thing got blown up.”


You use a loss leader to get people into the store to buy other things ... things that offset the loss. What else is there in the store for people to buy? I'm still guessing it was the UIL and Texas HS football. Once that was off the table, horntv is just a charity case.
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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018 10:10 am 
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I'm glad to see this article with five years of history, and from Mizzou's perspective. It shows that both A&M and Mizzou weren't mercenaries (as some former colleagues have retroactively opined); we were making principled decisions. Those were fun days - coming home from work (okay, even at work) and firing up this site to see what the realignment scoop was for the day.
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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018 10:31 am 
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That's a really good article. Another snippet that illustrates what we already know, and even though the focus of the quotes are Missouri, they also explain why our move to the SEC was the right move:

Quote:
DODDS, FEBRUARY 2013: “We’re going to have good years again. Our bad years are not that bad. Take a school like Missouri. Our bad years are better than their good years. But we’ve created a standard.”

ALDEN: “Texas’ worst years are like Missouri’s best years. Who makes those kind of comments? You know who makes those kind of comments? Arrogant people in arrogant institutions. And that’s exactly, in my opinion, that’s what we saw throughout the whole process.”


That little sliver of East Texas is looking pretty good.
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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018 4:00 pm 
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I thought there were some very good Loftin quotes from his book, Glad to see them included.

Thanks for finding and posting the story.
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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2018 11:21 am 
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I probably should keep my thoughts on this post to myself. I see some parts of this as ringing towards the reality and then there is some parts that seem to be just added to prove some point.


One thing we can all agree on is the negative impact that Texas made on the conference.


That it was some "agreement" between OU and Texas that was the big problem and what led to the four schools to take their business elsewhere, I think if a figment of someone's imagination.


First of all, Colorado and Nebraska had harbored lots of lust for the Pac 12 and Big 10, respectively. Both of these schools had a long history of seeking an avenue to their dream conferences. So, some of the issues within the conference just gave them more reason to bolt for long desired conference affiliation.


Nebraska, early in the Big XII, was all bent out of shape over recruiting. The Huskers love the rule on partial qualifiers. When the conference took a different path on the partial qualifiers that just fanned the flames for them to seek admission to the Big XII. It is also true that Texas and their selfishness was another part of Nebraska's motivation to leave the conference.


So, Nebraska leaving for the Big XII, I think, was as much about getting in the Big 10 than it was anything else. Then with the conference realignment of that era, Nebraska leaving just gave Colorado more reason to seek entrance to the Pac 12. The truth is that the Pac 12 really didn't want Colorado. However, the pressure to get from 10 teams to 12 and their lack of any other viable options brought in Utah and Colorado to get to 12.


Missouri, like Nebraska, had also lusted over being int he Big X. But, that was never going to happen. So, they decided to opt out of the Big XII for the SEC. And, I think in the process just used Texas as the reason ... and threw OU in the mix of reasons to bolt the Big XII. Missouri, in the Big XII experienced it's best run in football. I think the Big XII gave Missouri some better recruiting grounds etc. Missouri's problem in football was that they simply couldn't beat OU.


I think that of the four schools that bolted from the Big XII it is Missouri and Nebraska that made the wrong decision. Colorado isn't any better off with the Pac 12 than they were in the Big XII. They are making less money in the Pac 12 and their recruiting outside of California and Colorado has hurt them. Nebraska and Missouri sure haven't helped themselves football wise by their move.


In my view, it is only A&M that has helped themselves by moving to the SEC. It will be interesting to see how things play out over the next five to ten years.


Meanwhile, the Big XII is in the middle of the Power 5 conferences in terms of cash distribution to the teams. Texas hasn't missed a beat with their espIn contract. OU isn't hurting with their arrangements with Fox Sports. The Big XII is the only conference that retains their 3rd tier TV rights. I think that with the changes in the delivery of sports TV, OU has a chance to make some good gains in the value of their 3rd tier rights.


So, I get the reasons for the four teams to take their business elsewhere. I don't hate Texas, I just don't like the way the University of Texas goes about their business in dealing with their sister schools in the conference. To them it is all about them.


As far as OU is concerned, we lost one of the greatest rivalries in college football with the creation of the Big XII. We had two great rivalries and now we only have one. That is all we have lost with the creation of the Big XII. Losing the Nebraska rivalry does hurt. But, that was one of the negatives of conference realignment. What we have had over the past 20 years is great leadership and continuity. We are likely as stable in terms of Athletic Departments as there is in the country.


Anyway, I prefer to be aligned with the regional schools we have historically been aligned with. I hope it stays that way.


Still, there is a lot of uncertainty out there. We just don't know when some event[s] might trigger another round of realignment.
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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2018 3:27 pm 
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outside of sip, every school in the big xii has reason to go to a different conference. sip will always manipulate the situation to tilt the playing field in their direction while screwing over the rest of the conference. Seriously, the big xii is the worst conference when it comes to equity among the member institutions. And sip loves it that way.

I thought like you did before we left for the sec. I waxed nostalgic about our "regional" match ups, much like you. But after that first season it was like a breath of fresh air. And after listening to the vitriol from the likes of sip and baylor, I am even more convince we did the right thing. The more we play power houses like bama, auburn, lsu, florida, georgia and such, them more lose any sense of yearning for games against the old conference members. So when the big xii fails, make no mistake, it will fail, you will be just fine wherever you end up. It may take a couple years to adjust, but you will adjust. And why will the big xii fail? Simple, sip. You will never get a conference network because sip won't allow it. Sure, ou can do a foxsports regional thing, but that is it. The rest of the schools are screwed. And again, that is how sip wants it. If sip could screw ou over any more they would do so as well. You just happen to have more clout than they can overcome.

By the way, I am sure you miss the nu matchup quite a bit. But you are doing ok without it. The same will happen when the big xii breaks up.
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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2018 4:04 pm 
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ou still happy with the situation as they always get the bdf cupcake schedule as an easy path to the playoffs


Think
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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2018 6:01 pm 
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aggieinjakartatown wrote:
ou still happy with the situation as they always get the bdf cupcake schedule as an easy path to the playoffs


Think



I think your comment is way off base. We sure weren't afraid of bringing the four Texas teams into the same schedule with us. In fact, we were pretty happy to get those four schools on the yearly schedule. You can't construe OU willing to bringing these Texas teams in for conference games is us just looking for a cupcake schedule. That is unless you think Texas and A&M were cupcakes, right?

We have always been allied with the plains schools from Nebraska, Iowa, Colorado, Missouri, Kansas and Oklahoma. That is a logical alliance from a cultural and geographic standpoint. The Big Eight held it's own over the decades. I think we were superior to the former SWC. We sure did better from a national standpoint.

OU has never been afraid to play a solid schedule. In recent years we have had home and home series with Alabama, Florida State, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Tennessee, Miami, Cincinnati, Washington, Oregon, UCLA. We are 15 and 5 over the last 20 years with the above OOC schools.

In the near future we have UCLA, LSU, Michigan, Tennessee and Nebraska for home and home series.

You want to be critical of our conference schedule, fine with me. It is what it is and there is not much we can do about that. We are in a situation where there are simply no alternatives as quality additions to the conference. It is geography, not OU being afraid of competition. Not much we can do about that.

Out of the gate this year we get UCF, UCLA and Army. I just looked at about ten SEC schools OOC schedules and didn't find a single OOC three game schedule that is any better. Bama gets Louisvile, Arkansas State, Louisiana Lafayette and The Citadel. Arkansas gets some school with the initials EIL [likely Division II school] Colorado State, North Texas and Tulsa. Auburn gets Washington, Alabama State, USM and Liberty. The Aggies get Clemson [good for you], NWST?, La Monroe and UAB. Mississippi get Tx Tech, SIL [anyone know who that is?] Kentucky State and La Monroe.

So, you want to be critical of OU, fine. I just don't see any SEC teams going out of their way to do any better job of scheduling OOC games than OU.

I think on balance over the past 20 years OU has had as good or better OOC schedule of any school out there.
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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018 1:52 pm 
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^


Quote:
It is what it is and there is not much we can do about that


Wrong. You could have done the same thing that A&M did ... you could have made the move to the SEC when A&M moved.

I'd bet the farm that if ou had made the first call to the SEC -- or even if the Sooners had weighed in after preliminary talks with Mizzou but before that deal was done ... that the SEC would have said "come on down."
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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018 4:09 pm 
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One thing that never receives much media attention is that we (A&M) benefited from not having equal shares. We brought in much more money that many of our peers so I'm not sure why anyone from our camp would promote that as an advantage (having equal shares). I think it brings cohesiveness to the conference and eliminates some negativity but it worked to our advantage during our time there.

The Big 8 and SWC were well before my time (started school in the first year of the Big 12). From my perspective OU and Nebraska did well for the Big 8 and that's about it. Occassionally Mizzou or oSu would have a decent year but The Big 8 was really NU, OU, and the "other 6 schools". The SWC from top to bottom had a much more competitive conference over the course of time even if we cannot match the heights that OU and NU gained during their peak years. Many former SWC schools won at least one MNC and most at least won one conference championship.

This is what most OU/t.u. people will not recognize about the Big 12 as it currently sits: if both OU and t.u. both nosedive at the same time the conference is nothing. It's like the Big East without Miami and Va Tech. At least when Neb/A&M/CU/Mizz was still in you had another school that would probably pick up the slack. I think oSu, while one of my favorite former Big 12 partners, has proven itself to be very uneven. Kansas? Kansas St? Iowa St? Baylor? And TCU has a losing record (or maybe .500) in the new and improved Big 12. Lack of depth.
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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018 6:03 pm 
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but The Big 8 was really NU, OU, and the "other 6 schools".


Not quite true: In football the Buffs were just descending from the McCartney era, and the purple 'Cats were beginning to ascend under Snyder. KU could still surprise some folks, and oSu did frequently. Even McCarney's ISU teams had to be taken seriously.

When it was formed, the Big XII had a spread of good teams in football, hoops, and baseball, and the press gave props to the league for being very competitive.
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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018 6:52 pm 
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Jaybird83 wrote:
Quote:
but The Big 8 was really NU, OU, and the "other 6 schools".


Not quite true: In football the Buffs were just descending from the McCartney era, and the purple 'Cats were beginning to ascend under Snyder. KU could still surprise some folks, and oSu did frequently. Even McCarney's ISU teams had to be taken seriously.

When it was formed, the Big XII had a spread of good teams in football, hoops, and baseball, and the press gave props to the league for being very competitive.


I understand what you're saying but I'm talking about the preceding 50-60 years. It was two teams. If you don't believe me look up the conference champions for the Big 8. Vast majority are OU/Neb with a sprinkle of others here and there.
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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018 9:30 pm 
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The Big 8 was a tough conference.

You had Nebraska under Devaney

Missouri under several coaches but always lurking somewhere in the top 20.

Of course you had Oklahoma

Colorado was consistently tough back in the 60's.

AND Kansas had a number of good teams back then also.

KState under Dickey and Majors was a pretty good team.

Iowa State and OSU brought up the rear but were also tough off and on.

It was a good conference. Letting those people into the conference ruined it essentially the same way they ruined the SWC...and I can remember when Baylor, SMU, TCU, and Rice were consistently competitive.
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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018 9:35 pm 
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Gigem,

Things were much, much, much different in those good old days...

Just as an example, no recruiting limits allowed the bigger schools that could afford it to hand out hundreds of scholarships...some to provide a space for potential late developers--but mostly, just to keep their opponents from having those backups as first teamers at their schools.

Those "extras" got to live like the football heroes that actually got to play on Saturdays. They got to live with the "team", party with the team, get referred for summer jobs like the guys who played, got to enjoy all the little perks that the big boy teams that the NCAA wouldn't dare to question. Those taken to keep them from playing elsewhere had a very good life and got a college education for free.

Nebraska had a backlog of linemen that most of the country never got to even look at...big ol farm boys just warehoused to step in as seniors and become all league players...

There was a lot more going on back then than you think...and you can take it from some of the other old timers here--it was very, very different than today--or even the recent past...
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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018 10:49 pm 
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Gigem wrote:
One thing that never receives much media attention is that we (A&M) benefited from not having equal shares. We brought in much more money that many of our peers so I'm not sure why anyone from our camp would promote that as an advantage (having equal shares).

Simple, it makes the conference stronger, thus it benefits us.
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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2018 3:38 pm 
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Goodson wrote:
^


Quote:
It is what it is and there is not much we can do about that


Wrong. You could have done the same thing that A&M did ... you could have made the move to the SEC when A&M moved.

I'd bet the farm that if ou had made the first call to the SEC -- or even if the Sooners had weighed in after preliminary talks with Mizzou but before that deal was done ... that the SEC would have said "come on down."


Goodson, I will send your agtimes.com username to our new President so he can consult with you next time we have make a conference affliction decision to make. javascript:emoticon('Very Happy')

A&M going to the SEC was a decision you all made. No doubt everyone associated thought it was a good decision for A&M. I get that. I don't see anyway anyone outside of A&M people could be critical of your move. The only thing I would say is that the powers at be at A&M thought is was the best option for your school. Personally, I hated to see you Aggies go.

On the flip side, OU made a decision to stick with the schools in the Big XII. My personal view is that it was the right decision. It was the right decision for all of our sports programs. That is what our leadership thought and that is what I thought as well. I know there are some OU fans who would love to see us go to the SEC. But, most all of my OU friends think we are where we need to be.

I think where the college sports are going as a whole is not the best interest in the games. It is all about money etc.

I blame OU and Georgia for where we are today. I don't know if you guys remember, but it was OU and Georgia way back in 1984 that filed the lawsuit against the NCAA over the TV rights to the money from their own games. Back in those days, the NCAA limited how many times a team could be on TV during the season. Teams couldn't go to bowl game in back to back years.

OU and Georgia won that case and here we are today where the broadcast rights are driving this crazy money grab. Bama is paying Saban an obscene amount of money to coach football. You guys just signed a contract with Fisher for something like $75 million over ten years. That is also obscene. However, I am positive that we will make Lincoln Riley a very rich man by the end of this June. If, not then sometime in the very near future.

This stuff in my mind is just ridiculous.

Now we have the networks who are trying to be King makers. We have turned the college games over to the networks It is pretty sad, at least, in my opinion. Very Happy
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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2018 5:58 pm 
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You can tell him to put me on speed dial ... I promise I'll take the call.

I heard a number of perspectives on why ou didn't make the move. Didn't want to leave osu behind. Couldn't leave osu behind. Didn't grasp the reality of what a move to the sec could have had for the program economically.

One that I also heard --and can admire -- is a tenacious loyalty to the former Big 8 partners. That one resonates with me and would have merit.

One might ask then, was Texas A&M disloyal?

My answer would be a resounding "no."

We have been summarily deceived, dismissed and disrespected by our "friends" in Austin for far too many years. There comes a point -- in most if not all business dealings -- where one simply has to make the best decision for one's self.

That's exactly what we did.

For us to have done otherwise would have foolishly folded tent yet again to the conniving, deceitful, selfish and untruthful dealings of the school 90 miles to our west.
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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2018 6:48 pm 
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Aside from the Texas Univ problem, the SEC is simply a much better conference. Our continued participation in the Big? couldn't have helped it because the conference never became the conference it promised to be when it was formed.
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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2018 7:07 pm 
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Goodson wrote:


For us to have done otherwise would have foolishly folded tent yet again to the conniving, deceitful, selfish and untruthful dealings of the school 90 miles to our west.


And this is why putting ourselves back in a relationship with those conniving, deceitful, selfish and untruthful nutless bovines is extremely unwise. They are no better now than they were then. Heck, they are worse. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2018 10:22 pm 
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^

Preach it, brother. And all the maroon congregation said: Amen ... and amen.


Gig 'em
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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2018 1:22 pm 
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Goodson wrote:
You can tell him to put me on speed dial ... I promise I'll take the call.

I heard a number of perspectives on why ou didn't make the move. Didn't want to leave osu behind. Couldn't leave osu behind. Didn't grasp the reality of what a move to the sec could have had for the program economically.

One that I also heard --and can admire -- is a tenacious loyalty to the former Big 8 partners. That one resonates with me and would have merit.

One might ask then, was Texas A&M disloyal?

My answer would be a resounding "no."

We have been summarily deceived, dismissed and disrespected by our "friends" in Austin for far too many years. There comes a point -- in most if not all business dealings -- where one simply has to make the best decision for one's self.

That's exactly what we did.

For us to have done otherwise would have foolishly folded tent yet again to the conniving, deceitful, selfish and untruthful dealings of the school 90 miles to our west.


I think loyalty combined with the old former Big 8 schools being natural and logical affiliation was the biggest issue. I don't remember the old Big 8 schools showing much animosity towards each other. Well, with the exception of Kansas and Missouri. William Quantrill provided lots of hate between the Tigers and Jayhawks. Lawrence, Kansas was under siege for over four months. No love lost there. Of course the Jayhawkers were the free state militia and they raided towns into Missouri as well. Other than the hate osu has for OU it was a pretty civil bunch.

It is kind of insulting to suggest that OU wasn't smart enough to not understand the money benefits of the SEC. That is a non-starter. OU is pretty good with the $s. The OU athletic department donates a good chunk of cash to the OU general fund.

There is nothing official preventing OU or osu from going their separate ways when it comes to conference affiliation. With that said, I don't think Boren would have bolted anywhere without osu. For the record, OU fans don't hate osu. But, osu fans sure do hate OU. We do get lots of laughs. osu claiming some 40s era national championship is just so aggie ... well osu aggie anyway.
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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2018 4:47 pm 
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SORRY BOB...

Most folks on this site read your words and see the IDENTICAL discussion (or argument) that we have heard for decades about the relationship that exists between tu and A&M.

I don't think many here will accept the fact that OU fans don't hate OSU fans any more than they will accept the fact that tu fans don't hate A&M.

As much as you may personally believe that all that is going on is a ONE WAY STREET, it is in fact, not true.

I had the opportunity to live in Oklahoma City for a bit over three years myself and interact on a daily basis with literally thousands of OU and OSU fans on a daily basis.

Having lived in Texas almost all the rest of my life and having a family (on both sides) that went to A&M and tu, you can take my opinion that many, VERY MANY, of the aspects of the relationship between OU and OSU are similar, if not identical to the ones we face between tu and A&M.

If you believe that OU's treatment of OSU or tu's treatment of A&M HAS ALWAYS BEEN-or is today--above board and without malicious intent then it is time for you to commission an independent study by unbiased reviewers.

While we are honestly fortunate beyond words to have all four institutions in our two states, it has not kept two of the four from--as the saying goes--looking down their noses at the other two--AND--in many, many ways done virtually everything that they could to make sure--in their minds at least--that the other two never get the opportunities that they have reserved for themselves. After all, that was (or is) the way it was destined to be.

If you honestly believe what you wrote, it is time for you to make a factual reassessment. If you are unwilling to do that, than the very least you should be willing to do, it to quit trying to get us to believe it. We know EXACTLY what it is like to live in such a neighborhood...and what it takes to get out. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2018 6:25 pm 
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FDT67AG wrote:
SORRY BOB...

Most folks on this site read your words and see the IDENTICAL discussion (or argument) that we have heard for decades about the relationship that exists between tu and A&M.

I don't think many here will accept the fact that OU fans don't hate OSU fans any more than they will accept the fact that tu fans don't hate A&M.

As much as you may personally believe that all that is going on is a ONE WAY STREET, it is in fact, not true.

I had the opportunity to live in Oklahoma City for a bit over three years myself and interact on a daily basis with literally thousands of OU and OSU fans on a daily basis.

Having lived in Texas almost all the rest of my life and having a family (on both sides) that went to A&M and tu, you can take my opinion that many, VERY MANY, of the aspects of the relationship between OU and OSU are similar, if not identical to the ones we face between tu and A&M.

If you believe that OU's treatment of OSU or tu's treatment of A&M HAS ALWAYS BEEN-or is today--above board and without malicious intent then it is time for you to commission an independent study by unbiased reviewers.

While we are honestly fortunate beyond words to have all four institutions in our two states, it has not kept two of the four from--as the saying goes--looking down their noses at the other two--AND--in many, many ways done virtually everything that they could to make sure--in their minds at least--that the other two never get the opportunities that they have reserved for themselves. After all, that was (or is) the way it was destined to be.

If you honestly believe what you wrote, it is time for you to make a factual reassessment. If you are unwilling to do that, than the very least you should be willing to do, it to quit trying to get us to believe it. We know EXACTLY what it is like to live in such a neighborhood...and what it takes to get out. Rolling Eyes
THIS! Seriously Bob, stop being so disingenuous. I know several osu, ou, and nu people. Believe you me, nu despises ou. ou looks down upon osu, and osu hates ou with a passion. And from what I have seen of the ku, ksu fans, they hate each other. The Nav on my sub was a ku grad. He was a snob and despised ksu.
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