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2017 - WR/TE's

 
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ruffstuff's bro
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 10:02 am 
Post subject: 2017 - WR/TE's
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http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/tex...-potential
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Mighty Kyle
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 10:14 am 
Post subject: 2017 - WR/TE's
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This may truly be a case of addition by subtraction.

While very talented Speedy and RSJ never really developed into what we hoped they would. They dropped alot of ball that should have moved this offense.
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ruffstuff's bro
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 11:08 am 
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I question why any TE would come here with the lack of being used the last few years?
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 11:29 am 
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I think Merritt, Ausmon and the kid from DC are going to make us forget about Speedy and RSJ very quickly.

The only missing piece is who is the home run threat now that Reynolds is gone? Will it be Merritt who has serious jets or will it be someone else?
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KMRing
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 1:12 pm 
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ruffstuff's bro wrote:
I question why any TE would come here with the lack of being used the last few years?


It may be a chicken or the egg deal. I'd like to think that if we had a stud at that spot that could do everything that was asked, he'd get used - the coaches would adjust.
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ruffstuff's bro
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 2:51 pm 
Post subject: Re: 2017 - WR/TE's
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KMRing wrote:
ruffstuff's bro wrote:
I question why any TE would come here with the lack of being used the last few years?


It may be a chicken or the egg deal. I'd like to think that if we had a stud at that spot that could do everything that was asked, he'd get used - the coaches would adjust.


You would hope so, but it seems we've had highly recruited TE's during the last few years who haven't been used much if at all.
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Jarrin' Jay MR Member
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 3:01 pm 
Post subject: 2017 - WR/TE's
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Mighty Kyle wrote:
This may truly be a case of addition by subtraction.

While very talented Speedy and RSJ never really developed into what we hoped they would. They dropped alot of ball that should have moved this offense.


Agreed, neither are a major loss, I doubt RSJ gets drafted until late, and Speedy not at all. Will not be difficult to replace them or their contribution to the team.

RSJ played well in spurts, but way below his hoped for ceiling. Speedy was a non-factor to be honest, great athlete, not a good worker and off the field issues.

TE - the issue is we don't play a TE as a TE, we use him as a flex TE and inside WR. Until we use an inline TE for blocking and play-action passes it will be a problem. It's a fundamental flaw with the Sumlin offense. If the ONLY time the TE is used or on the field he is lined up as a slot WR that is a detriment to the offense and the TE player himself IMHO.

In 2012 we used Nemo Hicks ALOT in blocking, some passing as well. But that was with a very well trained and good TE who was an upper-classmen, and a better OC than we've had until Mazzone, and maybe better than Mazzone as well (or at least with that talent on that particular team).
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FDT67AG MR Member
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 6:16 pm 
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Unless I am mistaken, our OC used the tight end A LOT in his time at UCLA...especially his last year or two...

We just have not had the talent come here at tight end recently...

We're going to have to have a tight end come here and PERFORM before we can get a lot of the highly ranked guys give us a serious look...like AgDad said...it is the chicken or egg thingy...
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Jarrin' Jay MR Member
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 7:33 pm 
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FDT, maybe true, but they don't have to be an elite recruit to begin with. Sherman grabbed Nemo Hicks and Huston Prileau off the scrap heap and they were serviceable to good by their 2nd season.
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Cotton79
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 8:44 pm 
Post subject: Re: 2017 - WR/TE's
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Jarrin' Jay wrote:
Mighty Kyle wrote:
This may truly be a case of addition by subtraction.

While very talented Speedy and RSJ never really developed into what we hoped they would. They dropped alot of ball that should have moved this offense.


Agreed, neither are a major loss, I doubt RSJ gets drafted until late, and Speedy not at all. Will not be difficult to replace them or their contribution to the team.

RSJ played well in spurts, but way below his hoped for ceiling. Speedy was a non-factor to be honest, great athlete, not a good worker and off the field issues.

TE - the issue is we don't play a TE as a TE, we use him as a flex TE and inside WR. Until we use an inline TE for blocking and play-action passes it will be a problem. It's a fundamental flaw with the Sumlin offense. If the ONLY time the TE is used or on the field he is lined up as a slot WR that is a detriment to the offense and the TE player himself IMHO.

In 2012 we used Nemo Hicks ALOT in blocking, some passing as well. But that was with a very well trained and good TE who was an upper-classmen, and a better OC than we've had until Mazzone, and maybe better than Mazzone as well (or at least with that talent on that particular team).

I agree with MK and Jay on this one. Don't want to speak ill of recently departed players, but there is indeed much more meat on that TE/H-back bone than we've ever savored in the past 4 years.
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ruffstuff's bro
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 9:04 pm 
Post subject: Re: 2017 - WR/TE's
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Cotton79 wrote:
Jarrin' Jay wrote:
Mighty Kyle wrote:
This may truly be a case of addition by subtraction.

While very talented Speedy and RSJ never really developed into what we hoped they would. They dropped alot of ball that should have moved this offense.


Agreed, neither are a major loss, I doubt RSJ gets drafted until late, and Speedy not at all. Will not be difficult to replace them or their contribution to the team.

RSJ played well in spurts, but way below his hoped for ceiling. Speedy was a non-factor to be honest, great athlete, not a good worker and off the field issues.

TE - the issue is we don't play a TE as a TE, we use him as a flex TE and inside WR. Until we use an inline TE for blocking and play-action passes it will be a problem. It's a fundamental flaw with the Sumlin offense. If the ONLY time the TE is used or on the field he is lined up as a slot WR that is a detriment to the offense and the TE player himself IMHO.

In 2012 we used Nemo Hicks ALOT in blocking, some passing as well. But that was with a very well trained and good TE who was an upper-classmen, and a better OC than we've had until Mazzone, and maybe better than Mazzone as well (or at least with that talent on that particular team).

I agree with MK and Jay on this one. Don't want to speak ill of recently departed players, but there is indeed much more meat on that TE/H-back bone than we've ever savored in the past 4 years.


Are you sure? It seems like we had some quality recruits and one JC transfer who was suppose to be very good...all were underutilized for whatever reason...Jordan Davis ,Cam Clear, Brandon Alexander
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Cotton79
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 11:16 pm 
Post subject: Re: 2017 - WR/TE's
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ruffstuff's bro wrote:
Cotton79 wrote:
Jarrin' Jay wrote:
Mighty Kyle wrote:
This may truly be a case of addition by subtraction.

While very talented Speedy and RSJ never really developed into what we hoped they would. They dropped alot of ball that should have moved this offense.


Agreed, neither are a major loss, I doubt RSJ gets drafted until late, and Speedy not at all. Will not be difficult to replace them or their contribution to the team.

RSJ played well in spurts, but way below his hoped for ceiling. Speedy was a non-factor to be honest, great athlete, not a good worker and off the field issues.

TE - the issue is we don't play a TE as a TE, we use him as a flex TE and inside WR. Until we use an inline TE for blocking and play-action passes it will be a problem. It's a fundamental flaw with the Sumlin offense. If the ONLY time the TE is used or on the field he is lined up as a slot WR that is a detriment to the offense and the TE player himself IMHO.

In 2012 we used Nemo Hicks ALOT in blocking, some passing as well. But that was with a very well trained and good TE who was an upper-classmen, and a better OC than we've had until Mazzone, and maybe better than Mazzone as well (or at least with that talent on that particular team).

I agree with MK and Jay on this one. Don't want to speak ill of recently departed players, but there is indeed much more meat on that TE/H-back bone than we've ever savored in the past 4 years.


Are you sure? It seems like we had some quality recruits and one JC transfer who was suppose to be very good...all were underutilized for whatever reason...Jordan Davis ,Cam Clear, Brandon Alexander

I cannot argue that Jordan Davis and Cam Clear were not utilized as well as their talent would have suggested. Brandon Alexander was recruited as a DE, but just never seemed to find his way on the college gridiron. Either way, our offensive scheme just didn't allow the TE position to bloom as we have seen so often in the past at Aggieland. And that goes back to Kliff, the wonder-boy coach. He loves the passing game, but the TE position just ain't his bailiwick. As Jay points out, Kliff inherited a well-trained Nehemiah Hicks, and to Kliff's credit he found ways of keeping him in the game, but as I recall Nemo didn't catch many balls. He was used mostly as a blocker. What's more, his successors really didn't know how to use or develop TEs either.

Thankfully, Noel Mazzone is different. He DOES have a track record of using TEs, and that's the basis of my supporting MK and Jarrin' Jay's points. RSJ and Speedy never really came close to what our slobbering dreams were when they came out of HS. For whatever reason, it just didn't happen. What's upon us is a fundamental shift of the spread offense, i.e., the Noel Mazzone interpretation of it. After the Jordan Davis departure a few seasons ago, we have since lost some serious recruiting mojo for top TEs. The only way to get that back is to develop the hell outta folks in the existing roster, utilize said talent, then turn around recruit the hell outta that usage...

... instead of losing a top TE from the Houston area to Stanford, which happened last yr, I believe. Rolling Eyes
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ruffstuff's bro
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 11:25 pm 
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J. Davis transferred last spring...I believe after Mazzone was hired..they should have been able to convince him to stay... Brick wall
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FDT67AG MR Member
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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017 11:25 pm 
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The loss of a TE to Stanford may not be the best example to use...Stanford has been one of the TOP teams in the country at developing and using TE in the College ranks for a number of years now.

A kid with the smarts to attend Stanford and play tE there is likely to find a lot of success in life after Stanford...on the field or in the business world...

Still believe that if we can get one or two productive TEs here in the near future, we will be able to tap into that resource for years afterward...
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Agdad78
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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2017 12:09 am 
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Ruff wrote:

Quote:
they should have been able to convince him to stay...


I don't know what his deal was...but sometimes a kid just doesn't like his environment, his school, the community, his grades...maybe he liked Spav better...maybe he liked the departed QBs...


When a kid begins developing negatives in his mind...
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FDT67AG MR Member
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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2017 12:50 am 
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For what it is worth...at the time he transferred I saw a teaser indicating the subject..."What is really behind Davis' transfer"...but wasn't a premium member of the site and could not access it...

I asked if anyone on this site had access and if they would share...but never got a reply of any kind...

So, there may have been a reason other than the one some suspect... Whistle
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Cotton79
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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2017 1:01 am 
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ruffstuff's bro wrote:
J. Davis transferred last spring...I believe after Mazzone was hired..they should have been able to convince him to stay... Brick wall

ruff,

You can't squarely put that on the Mazzone move. There are perhaps dozens of other variables at play that AgDad suggests. I don't know this from Adam, but I'd have to believe the quarterback conundrum we experienced back then may have played a role in Jordan Davis' decision.
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aggieinjakartatown
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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2017 6:58 am 
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definitely need to get TE's involved in the offense in order to be able recruit quality players in this role
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Agdad78
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PostPosted: 19 Feb 2017 9:55 am 
Post subject: 2017 - WR/TE's
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Well, uh yeah. We do need to actually use a TE in our O System to get better guys to come here.

But the TE that will work well in the bdf is not the TE that will work well in the SEC right now. A TE in the SEC will have to block bigger, stronger, quicker, faster DTs and Lbers than those in the bdf. Then he will have to be able to run patterns, get separation and make catches expecting monster hits.

A converted OL is not the answer. You can do that in the bdf if that kid is lanky and can move a bit.

So let's review...

You will not get the best TEs if you don't use them.

No need to use one if he can't block like a very fast OL.

No need to use him to catch the ball if he can't get separation and catch the ball and hang on to it.

The best are big, quick, fast, have good hands, can block.


Chicken or the egg? Get one that can do the job and let him do it...or make a kid a TE and have him do the job so we can recruit a kid that can do the job? Think


Yes, a good TE that can block a bit, can get open and catch the ball, make very nice weapons. There are several around the country that make a name for themselves every year. Probably fewer percentage-wise in the SEC because you have to be better physically and athletically. They don't grow on trees...but they are out there...


All to say...I think Mazzone needs this in his offense...just looking at what he has done in the past.

Getting the guy that will work in the SEC is not easy.
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PostPosted: 22 Feb 2017 12:11 pm 
Post subject: Re: 2017 - WR/TE's
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Mighty Kyle wrote:
This may truly be a case of addition by subtraction.

While very talented Speedy and RSJ never really developed into what we hoped they would. They dropped alot of ball that should have moved this offense.
agreed. but also we have some very talented kids on tap in the rs program and coming in as true fish.
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